I came across this story on Wired today. It's about the lack of noise created by Hybrids and Electric cars being very dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians, especially blind people. The vehicles are so quiet they're difficult to detect. There's a bill before Congress suggesting that these cars should be creating an artificial sound/noise. Unintended consequences indeed.
That Blissfully Quiet Electric Car Might Just Kill You
People just need to look both ways before they cross the street!
Yeah I don't like this argument. Noisy cars are lame. A pedestrian (and cyclist) should be relying more on his sight than his hearing anyway.
Blind people have more of a valid complaint, but still, hybrids aren't silent. I suppose I wouldn't terribly mind if they added some sort of minor noisemaker to hybrids. It's the people who try to use the 'hybrids are too quiet' argument as a reason not to by them that really piss me off.
Aren't drivers responsible for looking out for those pedestrians and cyclists, too?
I agree with Dana -- totally bugs me when people complain that the hybrids are too quiet. I really like the quiet (both inside the cabin and outside seeing hybrids drive by). Less pollution -- both in terms of harmful emissions and also noise! I find them to be much preferable. I think it'd be pretty hilarious/ridiculous to add artificial noise to them. There must be another solution....
Causing something that's quiet to become noisy. I'm going to have to say no on this one.
1) For this artificial noise to be effective, it would have to be nearly as noisy as the rest of the traffic, otherwise it would be undetectable to a bicyclist until it was too late. That's pretty obnoxious artificial noise, and defeats one of the fantastic benefits of a hybrid.
2) To an uninformed public, it sounds incredibly ridiculous and would damage the reputation of the hybrid.
3) There just aren't enough hybrids out there for Congress to make an informed decision.
I work in automobile insurance claims and handle auto vs. bike claims and auto vs. pedestrian. I'd have to say it's a pretty even split, half the time the bicyclists don't follow the rules of the road and try to squeeze into someone else's right of way. The other half the motorist just didn't see the bicyclist. As for pedestirans, with the exception of parking lots, it's actually usually the pedestrian's fault. I've never EVER had a blind pedestrian claim (let's hope I don't!).
The bottom line is that everyone needs to be careful. Bicyclists need to remember that they're considered vehicles too (well, at least in California they are, I don't know what the vehicle code is elsewhere) and they have to follow the laws (that means travelling on the right side of the street, signaling before they dart over to another lane, and checking to make sure their path is clear (and I know that the majority of bicyclists are safe riders, but safe riders don't often get hurt). Motorists on the other hand need to get off their cell phones, put down their coffee and eyeliners, and pay attention to the road! (Especially the cell phones... they really REALLY make our roads unsafe!) As for pedestrians, the same goes - pedestrians have sidewalks and should only be crossing when it's safe. Unfortunately, accidents will always happen, but let's not blame the hybrid :)
Agreed - seems so silly to suggest adding sound to every hybrid on the road.
I know many intersections now beep to make it clear when it's safe to cross for the visually impaired, so before legislating that cars need to be louder, we should ensure that those types of steps aren't working.
If they end up needing to add something, I think they should so straight for "whistle tips" WOO WOO:
hahahahha it's like an alarm clock, wootwooooooooot! oh man, fingers crossed that those whistle tips don't end up in my neighborhood....
Haha, the whistle tip thing is just funny. I can laugh because I'm over here far from the idiots who are annoying everyone around them with their trendy new noisemaker, like them damn farting cars.
Seriously, the noise thing is actually a safety concern. It's easy to just say people should just pay attention. Yeah, and people should be nice and not blow themselves up, killing hundreds of other people. Whatever, here in reality...
I used to ride a motorcycle, until I became a disabled veteran. I had extra loud pipes, and for good reason. I had 15+ years of, what I considered, expert-rider experience. I was so aware of, not only my position, but also everyone else's position and intentions that someone could be inattentive and I could react to their future actions. People ran me off the road a few times. If someone was talking on their cell phone in their gigantic land mass of an SUV, I payed even more attention to them and what they may, and likely will, do.
Loud pipes just helps to make 'yourself' known. These SUV peeps didn't notice a 700 pound bike unless it was loud enough to make itself known.
That guy in his huge F350, blaring his dope-ass music, fumbling to text his girlfriend, isn't going to notice some quiet little car that asks permission to be there. Right or wrong, you'll still be squished. They can put your 'I'm right' rhetoric on yer tombstone.
John
If they made me put some kind of noise maker on my hybrid, I would be pissed. I really like my "stealth mode" (but I've never used it to sneak up and pounce on women or children).
I understand that pedestrians and bikers are always at the mercy of larger vehicles, but instead of adding "whistles and bells" it might be time for a public safety campaign. Even a minor effort to remind people to look both ways, obey the law, watch out for bikers and pedestrians, etc. etc. would benefit everyone instead of targeting a small group of car owners/ visually impaired.
Think about it: hybrids are not the only type of car that can hit and injure a pedestrian or biker. A wider effort by communities, grass roots, government, whomever to encourage public safety would (hopefully) reduce these kinds of incidents overall, instead a tiny fraction of total incidents across the country. Since technology is moving towards quieter vehicles (electric vehicles set to hit the market this fall), it's much better to encourage safer behavior by everyone in preparation for this shift instead of writing laws pertaining to a minority among cars on the road.
And what about hybrid bikes? Those suckers can travel 30mph. X D
Please... this is silly.
Most electrics make some noise with pumps and fans running (and obviously tire noise at high speeds). And in fact, some of the gas cars today are nearly as quiet as most of the electrics I've seen or driven.
The General Motors EV1 actually did have a pedestrian chime which could be used. I'm not sure exactly what it sounded like.
This is CLEARLY not a showstopper for EVs though. Wait... hold on... screw climate change just because of the off chance that a blind person might get hit. No, every new technology poses different safety concerns and responsibilities. This is no different.
I'd like to echo what seems to be the popular opinion on this issue and say legislating artificial noise on Hybrids is silly. Honestly, I can't believe that with everything else that is going on in our country and abroad that our legislature is spending any time and energy on this.
I'd like to echo what seems to be the popular opinion on this issue and say legislating artificial noise on Hybrids is silly. Honestly, I can't believe that with everything else that is going on in our country and abroad that our legislature is spending any time and energy on this.
Agreed. Seems like a pretty good indication that our legislators need to sit down and really go over the list of priorities and make some adjustments.
Just out of curiosity, what would you guys like to see changed in our politics/policies? I guess it kind of goes along the lines of the profile question about "what would you change in the world."
I'll start us off....going off of Dana1981's post about Bush's climate change plan (or lack thereof), I'd like to see the US government come up with a legitimate plan to address American contributions to greenhouse gas emissions. And I'd like to see better national support of green collar jobs (let's get Van Jones in there).
Just out of curiosity, what would you guys like to see changed in our politics/policies? I guess it kind of goes along the lines of the profile question about "what would you change in the world."
I'd first like to see the US enact a plan which would reduce our greenhouse gas emissions 80% by the year 2050. The Democratic nominees all had/have plans to accomplish this. Along those lines, I'd certainly like to see subsidies to oil companies eliminated. I haven't really looked into this, but I've heard that the Clean Air and Water Acts have been eroded during the Bush terms, and if so, I'd like to see them strengthened again. And of course for ANWR to remain protected from drilling, since it only contains about a year's worth of oil at our current consumption rate anyway.
In general, I'd like to see the environment and specifically global warming considered a top priority as opposed to a political afterthought.
Hold everything. There are FARTING CARS?
I would totally drive a car that made fart noises. Well, no. I would ride in one. If I drove, I'd be a danger to myself and others because I'd be laughing too hard to drive, and then what would all the pedestrians do?!
For the sake of argument, I'd like to point out that most intersections don't have beepies to let people know when it's safe to cross. The one I live by certainly doesn't, and cars race down that street like you wouldn't believe. On the other hand, it shouldn't matter because you are supposed to stop for pedestrians.
(My pet peeve currently is stopping for pedestrians who are clearly waiting to cross the street, making eye contact, waiting, and being WAVED ON. I'm already stopped! Cross the street already! And then as soon as I drive on they cross. What is that about? They wouldn't do this if I had a farting car....)
@ oakling - I share your pet peeve and what makes it worse is they are usually on cell phones and when you do start to go because they are dilly dallying they shoot you a nasty look! I suppose I wouldn't have this problem as much if I rode my bike and walked more... shame on me.
@ stins - I'll have to get back to you on the specfic legislation, but off hand I'd like to see the oil subsidies repurposed into meaningful tax breaks to everyday citizens that utilize Green alternatives like fuel efficient cars, alternative home energy... Also, I agree that I'd like to see more federal support for green collar jobs. I recall hearing something about a Green Jobs Corps... that sounds like a good idea. Maybe we could also have a federal student loan repayment program where students that study environmental science and commit to a number of years in the field doing public service jobs can have thier loans paid off. I actually think this should be done for many public service jobs like teachers but I digress. Maybe this should be a new thread... did we start by talking about how loud hybrid cars are?
