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Who Killed the Electric Car?

What did people think of this documentary?

 

I thought the film did a nice job showing all the various factors which contributed to the failure of the EV1.  I liked the 'whodunnit' format too.

 

There's a really nice website summarizing the movie here, too.

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 I thought it was awesome. It was lacking a bit in the technical department, but it didn't matter because of the way they presented the story. It is criminal, in my opinion, what GM did to the EV1.

 

It's amazing because everything that I imagine happens behind closed doors in the auto industry, basically anyones worst nightmare, turns out to be true in this doc.

 

Wonderful film, should be required viewing for everyone!

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My thoughts exactly.

What bothers me most is that now the general public really wants an electric car and we are waaaaaaaiting. We have seen the light, so to speak.

My friend and I were texting about this last night. This is what she said:

"I guess my biggest complaint is that as a population we always wait until the last minute to fix something. We can see the road to destruction we are going down and we know it's leading to failure, but we keep on it until, wham...there we are no options but to fix it fast."

We were talking about the oil/polution/global warming crisis.

Here we are now, the car companies get it and are trying to hurry to get this technology out there, when in fact it was already there to begin with and they are acting like it wasn't.

 

Geezsh.

 

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Originally Posted by KevinRyanWright:

 I thought it was awesome. It was lacking a bit in the technical department, but it didn't matter because of the way they presented the story. It is criminal, in my opinion, what GM did to the EV1.

 

It's amazing because everything that I imagine happens behind closed doors in the auto industry, basically anyones worst nightmare, turns out to be true in this doc.

 

Wonderful film, should be required viewing for everyone!


 

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Originally Posted by EarthMamaKylie:

 

"I guess my biggest complaint is that as a population we always wait until the last minute to fix something. We can see the road to destruction we are going down and we know it's leading to failure, but we keep on it until, wham...there we are no options but to fix it fast."

 

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more. I feel like this sort of nearsightedness is built into our system of government, though...current administrations have no incentive to invest time/resources into initiatives (like alternative energy development) that won't "bear fruit" until long after they're out of office.  Until there are contemporary economic motivators (eg. very high gas prices), it feels like not much action is taken....

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I thought it was such a great documentary. While writing about hydrogen cars for the LA Times, I did some research on the EV1 and thought I knew quite a bit -- this documentary proved that I had much to learn. I also really liked the "whodunnit" section and though the movie was well produced. The amazing part is when you see the perfectly working electric cars being CRUSHED by GM. A real travesty.

 

For more news on bureacrats and their views on electric cars , check out this article in the Economist:

 

http://www.economist.com/world/la/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11294453

 

Canada

Not on our roads

May 1st 2008 | MONTREAL
From The Economist print edition

Bureaucrats against electric cars, and progress

 

IN THESE times of high petrol prices and worries about climate change, you might think that any country would be proud to enjoy a lead in manufacturing electric cars. Not Canada, it seems. Two Canadian companies, ZENN Motor Company and Dynasty Electric Car, make small electric cars designed for city use; a third, which will use new battery technology developed by Exxon Mobil, plans to launch a model later this year.

 

But almost all these “low-speed vehicles” (or LSVs) are exported to the United States because Canada refuses to allow their use on public roads. Transport Canada, the regulatory agency, questions their safety. It doubts they would stand up in a collision with a delivery truck or a sport utility vehicle. Officials say they crash-tested one which didn't fare well, though they refuse to release the data. The agency wants LSVs confined to “controlled areas”, such as university campuses, military bases, parks and Canada's few gated communities. Its advice has carried weight with the provinces, which make the rules of the road.

 

It is true that the cars are made from lightweight metals and plastics. But the manufacturers allege political bias: Stephen Harper's conservative government has much support in oil-rich Alberta. Backed by thousands of would-be buyers, they are campaigning to reverse the agency's decision. “It's a ludicrous regulatory situation. All you can point to is oil and the big guys and think there's a conspiracy somewhere,” says Danny Epp of Dynasty.

Mr Epp reckons that his car should be allowed on urban streets with speed limits of around 50kph (30mph) or less. But Dynasty recently gave up the battle. In March it announced that it is being bought by a Pakistani firm, which will move production to Karachi and export to the United States from there.

 

ZENN—that stands for zero emission, no noise—promises to fight on. Ian Clifford, its boss, points out that there has not been a single death related to LSVs in the United States, where 44 states allow them and some 45,000 such cars are in use. And gas-guzzlers imperil public safety by polluting the air, he notes. But Mr Clifford is not expecting change soon. He claims that his campaign against Transport Canada has made him enemies. “Two senior, entrenched bureaucrats have told me personally that if it is the last thing they do, they'll keep LSVs off the road in Canada,” he says.

 

 


Edited by sophie - Fri, 16 May 2008 17:35:47 GMT
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Wow, I'm surprised that the Canadian government is more prejudiced against EVs than the American government!  ZENN makes some really nice cars.  Those safety arguments sound totally bogus to me.  It'll be interesting to see what happens when the CityZENN comes out in 2009.


Edited by dana1981 - Fri, 16 May 2008 17:49:06 UTC
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I know, isn't it sad that politicans are so anti-environment!? It doesn't make sense, since they have to breathe air, too.

 

In more hopeful news, Nissan is coming out with a new electric car, which is exciting. I'm really curious to see how the car will do here in the U.S. when it comes out around 2010. According to this Economist article (below), the cars will be able to charge up to 70% in around the same time that it takes to fuel up at the pump. That sounds amazing to me! We'll see if the car performs as promised...

 

Electric vehicles

Charge!

May 8th 2008
From The Economist print edition

Renault-Nissan's ambitious plans for all-electric cars

 

COMMITMENT is one of Carlos Ghosn's favourite words. He makes commitments himself and he expects his senior managers in the Renault-Nissan alliance to do the same. His latest, and one of his boldest, is that Renault and Nissan will lead the car industry in developing profitable zero-emission vehicles.

 

In recent months Renault-Nissan has teamed up with Project Better Place, a Silicon Valley start-up, to introduce all-electric vehicles and a network of charging points in Israel and Denmark by 2011. Now Nissan is going further. Speaking at a media event in Portugal this week, Mr Ghosn said that the time for the mass-market zero-emission car has come. Nissan plans to launch a battery-powered car in America in 2010 and by 2012 the Renault-Nissan alliance will offer a complete range of electric vehicles in every large car-market. And these new battery-powered cars, it claims, will work out less expensive than equivalent petrol models.

 

Renault-Nissan's new electric-vehicle strategy is, says Mr Ghosn, the culmination of two years' work. It is the product not just of rising fuel prices and the prospect of new emissions rules, but the frightening environmental implications of rapid growth in emerging markets. At the Beijing motor show in April, he observed that “nothing can stop the car being the most coveted product that comes with development”—but that more efficient conventional engines were not the answer.

 

Technically, says Mr Ghosn, everything is now ready for electric vehicles to enter the mainstream—except for the batteries, in which Nissan and NEC, a Japanese industrial giant, are “investing massively”. What matters for all-electric vehicles—as opposed to hybrids, such as the Chevrolet Volt, due in 2010, which can fall back on a petrol engine when the battery runs out—are their limited range and the time taken to recharge their batteries.

 

When California briefly mandated the sale of electric vehicles in the early 1990s, their 50-mile range and long charging cycles meant that they failed to attract more than a dedicated core of green-minded motorists. But lithium-ion battery technology could push range to 200 miles, and fast-charge systems promise to provide a 70% top-up in only a little more time than it takes to fill a tank with petrol.

 

Another requirement is innovative business models. Mr Ghosn says the electric version of the Mégane saloon that Renault is building for Israel will come with a lifetime warranty, and payment will follow the model established by the mobile-phone industry. After buying the car, owners will subscribe to a battery-replacement and charging plan based on their anticipated mileage. Recharging will be done at one of 500,000 spots that Project Better Place will build and maintain.

 

When Nissan launches its new line of electrical vehicles in America in 2010, it will initially target fleet buyers, which can provide their own charging stations. “It will be a real business,” says Tom Lane, Nissan's global product-planning chief, “not just a way to sell 200 cars in California.” He expects sales to retail buyers to begin in 2012, at a price of around $25,000.

Nissan is also hedging its bets by developing both a “parallel hybrid” system (akin to that found in the Toyota Prius) and a plug-in “series hybrid” similar to the Chevy Volt. But it favours the all-electric approach, even though it will be a tough sell, says Mr Lane. As for Mr Ghosn, he has no doubts. “We must have zero-emission vehicles,” he says. “Nothing else will prevent the world from exploding.”

 


Edited by sophie - Fri, 16 May 2008 18:08:29 GMT



Edited by sophie - Fri, 16 May 2008 18:10:47 GMT
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Yeah I heard about Nissan's push for electric vehicles in an NPR Environment podcast this morning.  They said the EVs would only be available to fleets at first, and they were shooting to make them available to consumers in 2012.

 

There's some skepticisms about this goal though.  Nissan is well behind Toyota and GM in terms of battery research, for one thing.  It's good to see them "investing massively" in battery research, but I find it hard to believe that they're going to close the gap in just a couple of years.  But still, it's great to see big auto companies taking electric technology seriously.

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Originally Posted by dana1981:

 

There's some skepticisms about this goal though.  Nissan is well behind Toyota and GM in terms of battery research, for one thing.  It's good to see them "investing massively" in battery research, but I find it hard to believe that they're going to close the gap in just a couple of years.  But still, it's great to see big auto companies taking electric technology seriously.

 

Agreed - it's great they're taking some initiative finally.  It was really interesting hearing Tesla Motors VP of Marketing Darryl Siry at SF Green talking about how a small company like Tesla could provide a lot of insight about battery technology to larger companies.

 

Let's hope that with their expertise and the funding from large auto manufacturers, we'll see good, affordable electric cars on the road sooner rather than later!

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Supposedly GM kept all the manufacturing dies and moulds and everything else that went into making the EV1, so theoretically they could start up production of it fairly quickly if they wanted to. Of course they never would.

 

It will be great if any of the major automakers really mainstream EVs, but I almost would rather just see a newcomer like Tesla make it big. Detroit has had the opportunity to do this for so long already...

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Originally Posted by dana1981:

Wow, I'm surprised that the Canadian government is more prejudiced against EVs than the American government!  ZENN makes some really nice cars.  Those safety arguments sound totally bogus to me.  It'll be interesting to see what happens when the CityZENN comes out in 2009.


Edited by dana1981 - Fri, 16 May 2008 17:49:06 UTC


 

Being from Canada I am even more shocked as I thought we weren't that bad when it came to climate change. But I guess not.

 

I loved the documentary and I just cannot believe what the companies did, I really cannot phathom that in a world of free speech and rights and all....this was done with those cars.  They seemed amazing and I think we would have seen the turnover to electric by now. Instead we keep procrastinating and procrastinating.

 

I am also shocked at how slowly governements are willing to do anything when it comes to alternative vehicles.  Put the laws in and make the changes start now...not keep projecting into some future years.  The technology is there, just not the drive to change.  I know it is all easier said than done, but if we as a world, country, etc. really wanted to change we would.

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