Proposal to let 88,000 Carbon Neutral drivers into HOV lane

You read that right - Sen. Battin of the 37th district in California has put forth Bill SB 1374 that would allow the first 88,000 drivers that buy carbon offsets for their cars to get stickers allowing them in the HOV lanes. He proudly admits that his "nifty $45 offset" makes him feel better driving around and he scoffs at the people driving Priuses that are not even close to carbon neutral.

At first, I was bothered that  a Hummer driver could buy his way into the HOV lane for ~$50, but he does make the good point that the first batch of hybrid drivers were given this same incentive and it was effective at encouraging the purchase of hybrids. In either case, you're buying access to a luxury (trust me, I sat on the 80W for 3 hours this morning...it would have been luxurious to cruise in the HOV lane)

Even with that, it doesn't sit right with me - they might as well make all the highways toll roads with different lanes depending on how much you're willing to pay. While I'm all for encouraging people to invest in alternative energy (through Carbon Offsets, RECs or anything else,) in this case, we need to be incentivizing car pooling, nothing else.

Anyone have additional info on this? Thoughts?

This proposed law is a travesty. Somehow we've let our incentive system become an HOV tax.

HOVs existed before people were even talking about carbon...  Carbon offsets are a distraction from the real need to reduce dependence on fossil fuels and the ills of traffic congestion - why we had commute lanes in the first place!

Fossil Fule hogs shouldn't be allowed in the HOV, no matter what tax they pay.

What can we do to stop this stupidity?

This seems like an ok idea. Yeah, it's made available to people who can pay, but that's how it works. Otherwise, you have too much damn welfare helping the people who don't want to or need to help themselves, oh wait...

I think the idea of a Hummer doing it is great. First, they are more equipped to fund their own changes and also research and development of other ideas. Second, they are in more of a position to 'popularize' the idea of alternative energy ideas.

On another note, I would like to see more carpool lanes, like half the freeway. In a city like Atlanta, or worse, LA, the congestion is just amazing. 6 or more lanes just packed with cars, most of which have one person in them. It's absurd. I mean, admittedly, when I was in the Nav, I didn't like to carpool because it hindered my freedom to run home or leave work early, etc. However, the congestion that we now have really is ridiculous and when sitting in traffic at a 5miles/30 minutes pace, you can't help but think about first, how unnecessary it is, second, how much yer spending on gas, and third, the crap that is being spewed into the air.

And then, someone whizzes by in the carpool lane, alone. Awesome. Enforcement is another issue entirely.

John

Interesting that NavyJohn's avatar/image is a big honking truck and he favors the legislation. :-)

What about my point that Carbon Neutral is not at all equal to reduced fuel consumption per rider per mile?

When did Carbon Credits become a tax? Talk about distracting us from actually solving the problems at hand, including $105.00/barrel for oil...

Yes, I love big, powerful vehicles, trucks, hot rods, jets, boats. Since my 'slowing down' (TBI), however, I have actually looked at the diminishing resources and avarice that people have, that is similar to a kid's mentality. I have, I want, now matters, I ain't thinking about later or the effects of my actions. So, now my goal is to sell my truck and get an even bigger honking, as you call it, truck, a 1-ton dually diesel that I can run on WVO.

I still love power and the idea of going hundreds of miles per hour, but I hope to see it done on something other than the fuels we use now. Furthermore, I don't necessarily think the 'popular' ideas are any kind of fix.

I also think a bit more, here in reality. I don't 'imagine all the people' and dream up all kinds of 'hold hands across the earth' ideas. I know, that there are people in this world who simply will not hold hands because they don't like the way you look or act or believe. So, because of whatever reasons they hold dear, they will kill you, it doesn't matter how nice you are. This isn't anywhere specific either, could be over there or here even. The gangland areas of our country are no joke. You can imagine all kinds of nice ideals, but that isn't going to change the mind of some 15 year old kid who hates all that you are because he hasn't been given the life you have and he gets the acceptance and self-respect from being in a gang that will kill anyone, anytime.

So, while we may wish to implement changes to carpool lanes or have everyone care about their carbon footprint, it ain't gonna happen. It sure ain't gonna happen if we don't network our minds together and we focus on what 'should be' and criticize others for their choices.

Ultimately, I would like everyone to carpool in cars that run on some alternative fuel so they aren't burning 12 mpg in their big, expensive SUV, sipping their gourmet coffee, eating their fast food with one knee on the wheel as they answer their cell phone or check their laptop or play with their GPS as they, and millions of others, drive alone to work or wherever they are going.

However, it ain't gonna happen. So, you have to engineer to the lowest level. You have to make the system accomodate the people who have no concern. Now, the level of regulation is a whole nutha argument. I guess that could be in corporated into a 'we need to Change...' speech.

I love you. I hate you.

John

I didn't mean to kill the conversation. This is a good topic. I was responding out of mild offendedness, but I was really just trying to explain my views. I wasn't trying to 'put up my dukes' or anything.

John

To get the conversation going again...

What do you all think about other tail pipe emissions?   Carbon dioxide is of course a big concern and everyone knows "global warming" is quite the buzz phrase.  But among other emissions, we've got methane and nitrous oxide which have implications for the environment and public health beyond global warming.

And yes.  Carbon offsets can be "carbon-equivalent" offsets and yes, we can say X tons of methane = X tons of carbon in terms of environmental impact.  But...can those $50 HOV stickers really get drivers to internalize all those things that are negative externalities now?

Also, does anyone know from where they are proposing to get the offsets?  Not all carbon offsets are created equal.  If the legislation goes through, I sure hope they' won't buy the dirt cheap kind that don't really accomplish a whole lot.

To the first question, that's something many people neglect when talking about diesels.  Many people only consider the fuel economy ("omg 50 mpg!"), and Europe is tending more toward diesel cars, but their problems with NOx and particulate emissions haven't been solved.  These emissions cause other issues like acid rain and health problems.  Plus because diesel emits 15% more CO2 per volume than gasoline, the greenhouse gas emissions savings aren't as big as they appear.

To the second question, it makes me wonder if people would view these stickers as just a way to get into the HOV lane, or if they would consider where the $50 is going.

To the third question, that immediately popped into my mind too.  They would have to be very careful to make sure the sticker fees were used to fund projects which would otherwise not have happened, to ensure that the drivers are indeed being carbon neutral.

One thing that I found odd is that the story mentioned the lawmaker paying $45 to offset a year's worth of driving emissions.  I haven't researched how much offsets cost, but a year's worth of driving in an average car is somewhere around 6,500 pounds (over 3 tons) of CO2.  Can you really offset that much with just $45 worth of carbon credits?  That doesn't sound right to me.

The big concern for me is how is the money used. I need to research a bit more. I am still new to this whole alternative fuels concept that I have made my new passion. This website is actually helpful to me because I can get fed info on other subjects that I may not seek out myself. Anyway, on that note, I don't really know what 'carbon offsets' are exactly. If someone would like to send me an informative email, that would be much appreciated.

My ignorance doesn't really change the fact that it sounds like a good idea. It's just the mechanics of it I don't understand. And, to answer the question/issue that has been posed a few times, no, I don't think the average spoiled commuter is going to give a hoot beyond '$50 bought me a spot in the HOV lane'. However, I don't think that is really an issue.

If the money is used to fund research, public transportation, more carpool lanes, cops to write tickets for people who stop in front of schools to pick up/drop off their kids instead of letting them ride the damn bus, better buses so over-controling parents will be ok with their spoiled kids riding the bus, then so be it. If alternative fuels, solar energy, and the other plethora of ideas are made more available and cost-effective then people would be more likely to pick them out of the selfishness they use to make most choices.

John